Posts by defender of truth

16

My problem with Original Sin

by leftbelow in

i found this quote in a book i was reading and it struck me this is why original sin is a problem for me.. damnation is the start of your morality, destruction is its purpose, means and end.

your code begins by damning man as evil, then demands that he practice a good which it defines as impossible for him to practice.

it demands, as his first proof of virtue, that he accept his own depravity without proof.

defender of truth

QUESTION for anyone reading this:

Even if you believe that the Original Sin occurred, and that our illnesses and suffering are a result of that bad decision made by Adam and Eve..

Why would a just and loving God let animals suffer, who do not sin and never have sinned?

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/222352/1/Theists-why-does-God-allow-suffering

Watching a beloved pet deteriorate and die of cancer finally helped me realise that a loving and just God does not exist.

Original Sin of mankind could not justify animals having to suffer..ever.

The thread I've linked to was where everything fell into place for me.

26

Dammit Jim, I'm a psychopath not an all loving God!

by Coded Logic in

when did you discover that the god of bible - and the loving god that you had worshiped your entire life - were not the same?

how did it affect you?.

.

defender of truth

Cold Steel: "There’s either a God or there isn’t, right? If there isn’t, then all life and all death is meaningless."

Cold Steel: "One monster can murder a thousand infants in this life and do it with the most malicious hate imaginable and it’s meaningless, just as all our lives are meaningless."

Cold Steel [referring to infants killed by the Flood]: "Once they are born and die, they return to God and are fully entitled to be resurrected... So either way it works out. In fact, infants not only die in a state of complete innocence, they don’t have to endure the hardships of mortality and they inherit the Kingdom of Heaven."

Cold Steel: "Everyone, no matter how miserable or hideous he or she may have been during mortality, will be resurrected."

..Yeah. Great logic there. So you are saying:

If there is no God, the one life that we have is meaningless, and death and mass murder are also meaningless.

If there is a God, it doesn't matter who lives or dies because they'll be resurrected to Heaven.

39

What Made You Finally Wake Up?

by Tenacious in

hello to all.

i've been on this site for a couple of weeks now posting here and there but have not had the opportunity to read about many of the regular members and what led up to their leaving the wt.. i understand that some of you (i'm part of this club) may not be able to disclose many details and i can appreciate that.. i'd love to hear what was it that finally made you renounce what is and hopefully soon to be "was" the wt.. i truly look forward to having good discussions.. thank you to all for your kind participation.. .

defender of truth

Welcome to JWN Tenacious. Always nice to see others waking up!

The following thread is where I fully 'woke up', after coming on here to defend the Watchtower at first. I guarantee it'll make you think.

Start from the beginning if you want to, but page 13 is where I came in..
Feel free to look at the thread sometime, and post if you feel like it.

(The subject is: why does God allow animals to suffer?)

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/222352/13/Theists-why-does-God-allow-suffering

55

No longer to use "house to house record" slips and "please follow up slips"!

by stuckinarut2 in

a letter has just been read out indicating that effective immediately, witnesses are no longer to use the s-8 slip known as the "house to house" record slip, as well as the s-43 "please follow up" slip (usually used for foreign language people).. the letter stated that this is because of the changes in privacy laws etc that are becoming common in the world today.. i will try and get a copy of the full letter and post it asap.. .

defender of truth

Chaserious:
"Even reading about UK and EU laws that were linked to, I am doubtful they would be liable in connection with the house to house forms."
...............

Thanks for looking into it, but the following thread mentions that even 13 years ago, S8's (house to house forms) were no longer to be used because of the Data Protection Act.
And the new one is meant to be harsher..

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/2863/1/UK-Data-Protection-Act

......
Also, this thread contains a scanned (and edited slightly) copy of the BOE letter regarding Data Protection Act. It stated that not-at-home forms and S3's (Bible study reports) were not to be used, and any info other than name and address should not be passed on. Please read it for yourself.
It was at least confirmed as accurate by Cantleave, a former elder.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/185091/1/THE-DATA-PROTECTION-ACT-letter

72

When Was Jerusalem Destroyed By The Babylonians?

by Smart in

can someone explain in easy to understand language what this argument is all about.

i am not that clever.

i am hoping to talk to the elders about this as well as whoever is willing to talk about it on here.

defender of truth

This page has letters to and from the Society, regarding this issue.

http://www.607v587.com/

55

No longer to use "house to house record" slips and "please follow up slips"!

by stuckinarut2 in

a letter has just been read out indicating that effective immediately, witnesses are no longer to use the s-8 slip known as the "house to house" record slip, as well as the s-43 "please follow up" slip (usually used for foreign language people).. the letter stated that this is because of the changes in privacy laws etc that are becoming common in the world today.. i will try and get a copy of the full letter and post it asap.. .

defender of truth

Chaserious, only the UK and New Zealand have been confirmed in this thread so far (we had the letter in the UK this week too by the way).
The only other possibility I could come up with, is if people are complaining that JW's are being seen making records of when people are out?
Probably not, but if it's not that, and it is not related to the new Data Protection.. Then why are they doing this?

55

No longer to use "house to house record" slips and "please follow up slips"!

by stuckinarut2 in

a letter has just been read out indicating that effective immediately, witnesses are no longer to use the s-8 slip known as the "house to house" record slip, as well as the s-43 "please follow up" slip (usually used for foreign language people).. the letter stated that this is because of the changes in privacy laws etc that are becoming common in the world today.. i will try and get a copy of the full letter and post it asap.. .

defender of truth

SOMETHING JUST STRUCK ME...
I doubt that anyone is reading any of this, but please bear in mind the quote from the above article regarding data being kept on people (even when written informally on sticky notes for example).

Then, please read these clear instructions, directly from the Society, in the Febuary 2014 KM..

"This month we are encouraged to work on making a record of the interest.
We must return to those who show interest and teach them...
This requires finding the person again, talking about his concerns, and building on our previous conversation.

Therefore, when we find interest, it is necessary to make a record of it.

How to Do It:
Make sure that you have tools in your witnessing case for recording interest. Keep your records neat, well-organized, and up-to-date.
Make a record as soon as you finish the call.

Write down information about the householder.
What is his name and contact information, such as his address, phone number, or email address?
What did you observe about him and his family that may be signicant?
Write down the details of your conversation.
Record the time, the day of the week, and the date of the visit.
Update your record each time you return.

No harm is done if you write down more information than you need."

[Take note of the wording used: must, necessary, make sure.. These are undeniably instructions, straight from the Society.
Getting rid of those forms does not remove the evidence that all Witnesses are instructed to keep records of householders personal information by the Society.]

Download the KM straight from the official source...
http://download.jw.org/files/media_publickm/7b/km_E_201402.pdf

55

No longer to use "house to house record" slips and "please follow up slips"!

by stuckinarut2 in

a letter has just been read out indicating that effective immediately, witnesses are no longer to use the s-8 slip known as the "house to house" record slip, as well as the s-43 "please follow up" slip (usually used for foreign language people).. the letter stated that this is because of the changes in privacy laws etc that are becoming common in the world today.. i will try and get a copy of the full letter and post it asap.. .

defender of truth

And if anyone wants to report anything to the Information Commissioners Office..

https://ico.org.uk/global/contact_us

55

No longer to use "house to house record" slips and "please follow up slips"!

by stuckinarut2 in

a letter has just been read out indicating that effective immediately, witnesses are no longer to use the s-8 slip known as the "house to house" record slip, as well as the s-43 "please follow up" slip (usually used for foreign language people).. the letter stated that this is because of the changes in privacy laws etc that are becoming common in the world today.. i will try and get a copy of the full letter and post it asap.. .

defender of truth

Even getting rid of official forms may not be enough, according to this..

Data compliance breach firms face fines of up to £500,000

"From quickly scribbled names on a sticky note to full confidential reports, Shropshire businesses have been urged to check they comply with data protection law or face fines of up to £500,000.
And she said it was not just the risk of financial penalties, with brand damage and loss of reputation also enough to send a company under.

“Everything from a Post-It note with a name and telephone number to client surveys and customer reports must be disposed of under the DPA,” she said.
“Every single person in the UK has a legal right to ask at any point what information you hold on them, whether you still hold it and if not, how it was destroyed.
“If your response does not meet data protection laws, a complaint could be made to the Information Commissioner’s Office and that could result in legal action and a fine anywhere up to £500,000.

Not only that but with breaches published on the ICO’s website for anyone to see, the damage to your business’s reputation and brand could be irreversible and even enough to send an organisation under.”
From January to October this year(2014) alone, a total of almost £1 million in fines has been levied by the ICO on organisations in England, Wales and Northern Ireland for data protection breaches.

Even charities are not exempt from the law.."

http://www.shropshirelive.com/2014/11/19/data-compliance-breach-firms-face-fines-of-up-to-500000/

55

No longer to use "house to house record" slips and "please follow up slips"!

by stuckinarut2 in

a letter has just been read out indicating that effective immediately, witnesses are no longer to use the s-8 slip known as the "house to house" record slip, as well as the s-43 "please follow up" slip (usually used for foreign language people).. the letter stated that this is because of the changes in privacy laws etc that are becoming common in the world today.. i will try and get a copy of the full letter and post it asap.. .

defender of truth

Terry:
"What issues are REDEFINING this organization are purely along the lines of "follow the money."
------
(For anyone who missed my above posts)
"Some of the main proposals are: introducing fines from data protection authorities of up to €1m (£780,000) or 2 per cent of annual worldwide turnover.."
http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/new-eu-data-protection-laws-a-headache-uk-charities-lawyer-warns/management/article/1321400